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Thread: Shocked and alot awed

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    215

    Default Shocked and alot awed

    I believe at one time I started a thread titled " To flap or not to flap".. or something like that. Well, today I flapped -- one notch to be exact -- and was astounded how quickly , and with an airspeed of 60 ( mph) indicated she took to the air. Holey Famolee !! Homer, I think I owe you some doughnuts --( I believe some "Krispy Kreme " ?) -- and some starbucks to wash 'em down with. With nothing more than attention directed at technique ( and NOT using any particular standard short field method -- I just set up a nose high attitude and held it there) , she broke ground into a positive climb before the first turn-off . I was having so much fun I did it three more times ! It sure SEEMED pretty short and in little or no time spent in the takeoff roll. Temp was 29 degreees C and a dew point of 22 degrees C, with little or now wind to speak of . I attached a picture / diagram of the airport and maybe one of you fellas can help me "guesstimate" the distance . ( BTW I was told that was a 500 foot distance at KHAO.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails take off profile.jpg  
    Last edited by BigJohnnie; 06-25-2009 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Leeds, AL.
    Posts
    711

    Default

    If you really want to be amazed try running up to 55-60 and popping full flaps and rotate with gusto. It will come off like a crazed elevator. Be careful to ease the backpressure and milk off the flaps as you stabilize the climb.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gay, WV
    Posts
    39

    Default

    The first precision mark is 1000' from the runway end line. According to Google Earth, you used up about 600' to 650' if you started on the numbers.
    I'm familiar with Butler as my girlfriend was in a 210 that crashed on landing there several years ago.
    Bob N5656H

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shanty Bay, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Hope she was OK.....

    Peter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Winchester, VA
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Airlines always use take off flaps (have you ever seen a 757, 767, 777, etc taking off without take off flaps?. When I learned to fly in Cessna 150s and 172s I was told not to use the flaps unless I was doing short field take offs. HHHMMMM????

    If flaps are used for short filed take offs, then why not use them all the time? Isn't it good to get off the ground quicker and to climb to a safe altitude? I have owned my Pacer now for 9 years and have always used the first notch of flaps on take off. I like the way the Pacer climbs out and get me to a safe altitude as quick as possible.

    Juergen
    Pacer N3342Z

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Leeds, AL.
    Posts
    711

    Default

    Cessne 150 flaps are suggested for soft field take off not short field
    The question is one of power, accelleration, drag and weight.
    The reason the ()pacer takeoff id better "popping" flaps after gaining speed is that the additional drag is not there until it will do some good.
    Unlike the Cessna with electric flaps the johnson bar operated flaps can be operated very much more quickly. While this is an advantage on application you could be too quick to raise them too.
    Short field - reduce drag as much as possible. For the Pacer that means get the tail up quick to stream line the fuselage and get the wings to zero angle of attack fot the least drag. When you have reached the speed at which the airplcne will fly with full flaps. "pop" the flaps and rotate smartly. Then after the aircraft is off the ground and established in the climb reduce the angle of attack to best climb or best angle speed as necessary and milk off the flaps.
    The danger here is the impact of gusts, too high angle of attack, loss of power, and departure stall. As you execute you will be dependent on power for survival and must be spring loaded to decisively lower the nose if power is lost.
    Like most techniques for extacting maximum performance you are operating at or near the limits and you need to be aware of potential hazards since you have accepted the risk by making the choice.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer42Z View Post
    Airlines always use take off flaps (have you ever seen a 757, 767, 777, etc taking off without take off flaps?. When I learned to fly in Cessna 150s and 172s I was told not to use the flaps unless I was doing short field take offs. HHHMMMM????

    If flaps are used for short filed take offs, then why not use them all the time? Isn't it good to get off the ground quicker and to climb to a safe altitude? I have owned my Pacer now for 9 years and have always used the first notch of flaps on take off. I like the way the Pacer climbs out and get me to a safe altitude as quick as possible.

    Juergen
    Pacer N3342Z
    The airlines do it because those wings on their aircraft are designed for efficiency at high speed and high altitude, he has power to overcome the drag...I wonder how fast he'd have to go to execute a no flap take off?
    "Some people are like a Slinky, absolutely useless but you cant help but smile when you push them down the stairs."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    215

    Default

    I guess what took me by surprise is that it took me by surprise. Go figure. I just held the nose up SOME, and she lifted off authoritatively. Never did it seem "mushy", but I did push the nose over some after she broke ground because the attitude was just a little high for my comfort. Now I know I can do it again if I have to.

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